ShaveReady.com – A Vendor Friendly, Straight Razor Forum

Shaveready.com went live in the beginning of February, 2010, and is a meant to be a gathering point and forum for the expanding number of straight razor related vendors and service providers to speak freely about their products and participate as individuals.

I’m surprised that this sort of thing hasn’t happened sooner. Reputable vendors in the straight razor world have a great amount of knowledge and experiences about their products and services, and are more often than not, are happy to share their “professional” opinions with anyone who will listen- even if your eyes do glaze over after a few minutes! Contrary to popular belief, it’s not always about making the sale, it’s about networking and helping the entire straight shaving community. After all, most of us are also straight razor users.

I hope that everyone interested in straight razor shaving goes to Shaveready.com and signs up, or even just visits to see what’s going on as it hopefully grows into something everyone can benefit from.

The Philosophical Debate about Shapton and Chosera Stones for the Edge Pro

In the cosmic order of things, there is a balance made up of equal opposites. Newton said, “To every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.” The Asian Yin and Yang are basically two sides of the same coin, so to speak.  Even though I have been very vocal about the fact that no one should dismiss the quality of the stock Edge Pro stones, I can’t help but feel that there is or are some factions of the Edge Pro user world that feel or may feel threatened by the arrival of the Shapton and Chosera stones for the EP.   The following is basically a short stream of consciousness that reveals both sides of the coin from my point of view.  (Just in case you don’t need the philosophy, I’ll conclude  that the Shapton and Chosera EP stones are nothing but good for the Edge Pro.)

The Edge Pro is a great sharpening device, and the EP stock stones have long been the sole choice for it.The arrival of Shapton and Chosera stones creates 2 thoughts – the first is that now EP users will have even more flexibility and options for obtaining great results. The second is that it creates confusion in an otherwise very simple and straight forward (yet very effective) method of sharpening.

It is this second thought that keeps me up at night asking “What if EP users don’t want more options?” After all, as a freehand sharpening stone user, it can be very expensive and time consuming to play around with all of the stones on the market. There is always another possible combo that might work better or faster for a specific knife or tool (that thought keeps me awake, too!) For so long, the Edge Pro has “kept it simple,” offering a single choice of reliable stones and tapes. The idea of opening up the options (or simply having more than 1 option) might cause a loss of stability to long-term users, and confuse or even worse, repel prospective newcomers.

Another issue is the possibility of dividing EP users, since there will inevitably be a “contest” where epic battles will be fought between those with preferences for the different stones. This could also lead to a loss of stability to long-term users, and confuse or even worse, repel prospective newcomers.

However, against these negatives, there are positive possibilities for the arrival of what seems to be direct competition for the stock stones. It hit me that, just like Harley Davidson motorcycles, there is a whole industry of accessories that revolves around the motorcycle itself. You can get custom engines, lights, alarms, luggage, wheels, rims, apparel, etc., that are all for Harleys, but not necessarily made by Harley (I’ve used this argument before). This accessorizing by other companies has not taken away from the appeal of the motorcycle, but has, in fact, added to it. No other motorcycle company has such a large and dedicated “culture” around it.

If you liken the Edge Pro to a Harley, the introduction of the Shapton and Chosera EP stones compliments and raises the status of the Edge Pro. With all due respect to the other sharpening devices out there, no one has deemed it necessary (or more accurately, on one has deemed it cost effective) to actually enhance the functionality of the basic design without changing the device itself (for example, you see lots of usually inferior or altered copies of the original, or DIY projects that boast their inexpensive material costs). In other words, adding or using the Shapton and Chosera EP stones does not change the Edge Pro anymore than adding a chrome kit to your Harley changes it. Much to your satisfaction, you are still purchasing and using the Edge Pro.

To conclude, The Edge Pro has just started it’s own culture, making the negative notions of this endeavor seem petty.

Watch out Harley-Davidson!!! : )

Which Edge Pro Stones – Stock, Chosera, or Shapton?

Since the introduction of the Shapton and Chosera stones for the Edge Pro, people have been asking which ones to get – the Stock, the Choseras, or the Shaptons?

As I’ve stated before, the stock stones are certainly very capable of creating an ultra sharp edge. Since it’s conception, the reputation of the EP and the stock stones has been nothing but stellar and I expect that it will always be that way. For those brand new to sharpening or sharpening with the Edge Pro, I suggest starting with the stock stones until your results consistently meet your expectations if for no other reason than the stock EP stones are cheaper to replace – like all things, there is a learning curve and you will probably mess up a stone or two along the way.

Once you are comfortable and confident using the Edge Pro or are ready for more stone options, you have 2 choices when expanding your EP stone collection. The first is to continue from where the stock EP stones leave off onto the Chosera or Shapton stones, and the second is to change out the stock EP stones for equivalent Chosera or Shapton stones. The best part is that no matter which you choose – EP, Shapton or Chosera, you will be happy – having different stones in your arsenal only makes you and your Edge Pro more versatile.

Before making any recommendations for specific stones, I think it best to first put these stones on a more even playing field since they use different, and often confusing grit measurement standards.  The chart below breaks each stone down into its abrasive particle size in microns. It is based on an existing comprehensive breakdown by others, but is by no means an exact comparison. I based the EP stones on the US ANSI standard, the Shaptons off the glass stone micron markings (probably the most exact), and the Chosera off the New JIS (Japanese) standard. To be thorough, I added the EP polishing tapes, but there seems to be a inconsistency in the math between the EP stones and the polishing tapes on the ANSI chart. (If anyone has more specific numbers for the EP stones and tapes, please let me know).

As you can see, the most common denominator is the EP stock 1k, the Shapton 2K and the Chosera 2K. If you choose to continue for more refinement after the stock 1K, the 2K Shapton or Chosera will pretty much duplicate the stock 1K as far as abrasive size is concerned.

If you choose to go with Shaptons, it is highly recommended to start with the Shapton 2K to really prepare the edge for the 5K Shapton pro. The 5K Shapton will only polish. You can skip from 2K to 8K in the Shaptons, but I personally prefer to use the 5K as the first polishing stone, then go to the 8K or even skip to the 15K.

If you start changing out the coarser EP stock stones for Shapton Professional stones, the #220 is formulated for stainless steel, and the #320 is formulated for carbon. The #120 is a hungry stone, but wears the fastest of the coarse Shaptons. The #220 is the “hardest” of the coarse stones, but any one of these stones will make quick work of profiling and removing chips. The 1K is probably the most mathematically correct intermediate Shapton stone. From there, you can go to 2K or skip to the 5K. the #1,500 stone is a little better at skipping to the 5K than the 1K. If you are going for a more cosmetic finish, 1K to 2K to 5K is best.

If you choose to go with Chosera, the 2K or 3K Chosera will set up the edge for the 5K and 10K Choseras. Since the 3K is not a polishing stone, going from the 1K stock EP to the Chosera 3K is reasonable. Skipping from 2K to 5K and 3K to 10K is also acceptable, although still using the 5K  before the 10K is probably best in the long run. Because of the close proximity of the 2K and 3K, the best option for you will depend on which stone is used before and after.

If you start changing out the coarser EP stones for Chosera stones, the #400 is not as slow as it’s grit number sounds. It can hold its own when changing the profile or removing chips. The #400, #600 and #800 Choseras are probably best for simple maintenance sharpening – the #600 is also very nice for removing coarser scratch marks before the 1K.  Like the Shaptons, the 1K Chosera is a mathematically sound stone before either the 2K or 3K Chosera.

So – What do I recommend? Get them all and find out for yourself which is best for you and your knives!  : )

The Jende Book of Sharpening Double Hollow Ground Reed Knives

I just wanted to post a shameless plug for my reed knife sharpening book – The Jende Book of Sharpening Double Hollow Ground Reed Knives.

The book is based on my reed knife seminars, and teaches the same exact method that I use to sharpen every Jende Reed Knife. It walks you through the entire process with lots of color pictures and descriptions along the way. The first half of the book contains a lot of sharpening theory and information (including an illustrated glossary) and is a useful reference for any reed knife user. The second half of the book focuses on the sharpening itself, taking you step by step through the shaping, refining and polishing stages of sharpening, and includes detailed instructions and pictures for both right and left-handed knives.

This book is a must have for any reed knife user’s library.

Jende Reed Knife – Find Out For Yourself….

Jende Reed Knives are the sharpest reed knives on the market right out of the box for making and adjusting oboe, bassoon, clarinet and even saxophone reeds. But I’m just a salesman if I write a post about how great I think they are. I suggest trying one for yourself.

Here is a list of current Jende Reed Knife retailers (in alphabetical order):

1. Expert Woodwind Service
2. Hodge Products, Inc
3. Jende Industries, LLC
4. North Texas Oboe Reeds and Cane
5. Oboe Works
6. Weber Reeds
7. Weiner Music

Original Jende Reed Knife

Shapton Stone Tutorial Part 1: Introduction to the Shapton Pro and Glass Series

I was asked to put together something to help people discern between the different Shapton product lines by Locutus, a respected member of The Knife Forums. This is my first installment.

First, a little background information. I have been a Shapton retailer for over 5 years, and have used the Professional and Glass Series almost exclusively in that time – by choice. I sharpen many different things outside of the forum’s normal Japanese/Western kitchen and EDC knives, including woodworking tools, reed knives, straight razors, beautician and medical scissors, periodontal instruments, and orthodontic cutters and pliers.

OK, so first thing first – Shapton has 2 main product lines in the US – Professional and Glass. There are several more lines – some have been discontinued over the years and others are not readily available in the US. (I hope to cover them in another installment, later.)

The Professional series have 10 stones, with some specifically formulated for carbon or stainless steels(or Japanese or Western knives and planes). They are really designed to be used in a coarse to medium to fine progression.

Coarse:

#120 – (White) – This stone is very aggressive, but tends to need a lot of maintenance to keep it flat and to keep it aggressive. (IME, Chisel users like this stone remove chips, but I generally don’t recommend it for kitchen knives)

#220 – (Moss Green) This stone is “harder” and is formulated for stainless steel.

#320 – (Dark Blue) This stone is “softer” and is formulated for carbon steel.

Medium:

#1,000 – (Orange) This stone is labeled Coarse/Medium, and is formulated for stainless steel.

#1,500 – (Lighter Blue) This stone is formulated for carbon steel and IMO, is a great 1 stone solution for minor repairs and edge maintenance.

#2,000 – (light Green) This stone is formulated for both carbon and stainless, and is one of my favorite, although very under used, stones.

Fine:

#5,000 – (Wine Red) This stone is pivotal in the Shapton pro series. It is a dense stone that produces the first mirror finish. It sets the stage for the finer polishing stones while producing an excellent edge for most conventional knives and tools.

#8,000 – (Melon Green) This stone takes the 5K to the next level. I find it “rubby”, but yet it always produces a wonderful finish and edge. (While I always recommend going from the medium to the 5K first before going to the 8K, this stone can also be used in a 2K-8K progression.)

#15,000 (Yellow) This stone takes everything even further. It is a “softer” stone and really puts a wonderful finish on an edge. (The Japanese version of this stone is the 12K. The only difference seems to be the packaging. The reasons for the numbering differences are unknown by me, and I do not have the 12K myself. I do not see why only one stone would be different or why each would not be offered in the other’s market.)

#30,000 (Purple) This is a truly wonderful stone, although it is very expensive. It is dense and hard, and takes sushi knives and razors to the ultimate level.

——

The Glass stones are the second main Shapton stone line. They were specifically formulated to accommodate the cold-hardened Lie-Nielsen A-2 plane blades, which are RC 63. (The Pro series will work on the Lie-Nielsen blades, but at 5K +, the feedback feels a little weird.) The Glass Stone series is considerably softer than the pros (relatively speaking – they are nowhere near as soft as a Norton 4K) in order to keep a steady supply of fresh abrasive to cut through the hard steel.

It should be noted that Shapton stones seem to be aimed at the woodworking market, mainly plane and chisel blades. I won’t expand too much on this in this installment, but the reason I bring it up is because the Glass Stones’ 5mm of abrasive vs. the 15mm on the pros have reduced the weight and cost of the Glass Stones, making them more affordable, and therefore very desirable for many other sharpening applications, such as kitchen knives.  The technology for the hard steel also made the Glass stones very attractive to the more exotic steels used in many tactical, fixed blades, custom knives, etc.

With some help from Jim Rion from the SRP, I was directed a very good chart on a Japanese website that explains what each glass stone is ideal for (and I pretty much agree with). It has been translated below. You’ll note that there are several stones that are not available in the US, and that there are 3 gray colored JP (Japan) Glass Stones.

Shapton Glass Stone Series Chart (English)

The “regular” Glass stones are white in color, and in the US come in #220, #500, 1k, 2k, 3k, 4k, 6k, 8k, 16k, and 30k. The gray JP Glass stones are gray in color, and are formulated for carbon steel. The three JP stones are available in the US. (Only the #120, #320, and 10K are not.) In my mind, the JP stones are like the Shapton Pros with Glass Stone technology. As far as I know, there are only the 4k, 6k, and 8k in these JP stones, and that there is not an entire set of JP stones. (If there is proof otherwise, please let me know!)

While the Pro series was designed to go from coarse, to medium, to fine, the Glass series is pretty much mathematical, with doublings along the whole series. These stones are also broken down by the abrasive sizes in microns, giving a clearer indication of what each stone is doing.

Thanks!

Shapton and Chosera Edge Pro Stones 1″x 6″x5mm – WOW!

I’ve been working with Ken Schwartz at Precise Knife Sharpening, who is custom cutting Shapton Pro, Shapton Glass, and Chosera stones into Edge Pro sized stones (1″ x 6″x 5mm thick). They come mounted to an aluminum blank that fits perfectly in to any existing Edge Pro machine. They can be found on my website here.

Why, you may ask?…

Well, the stock Edge Pro stones are very nice, indeed, but they are stock. It’s like buying a stock Harley Davidson Motorcycle. Stock Edge Pro stones do the basic job, and produce edges that are much better than using freehand sharpening.

But imagine a world with the Edge Pro where extreme levels of sharpness and refinement can be had just by changing the stock stones out for three of the highest quality sharpening stone lines on the market – the Shapton Pro, Shapton Glass and the Naniwa Choseras.  It’s the Edge Pro on Steroids!

Here is a picture of the Shaptons:

Shapton Edge Pro Stones #120 through 15K

Here is a picture of the Chosera 10K, mounted:

Chosera 10K Edge Pro Stone, Mounted

The Edge Pro will never be the same…..

Taping the Spine of a Straight Razor – In a New Light

So I went to one of my knife makers yesterday in order to discuss the possibility of making a Japanese style straight razor for a member of the SRP. Everything was going fine with the design specs, and we started discussing the possible steel types, overall hardness, and thickness of the spine. This post is in relation to what happened when discussing the thickness of the spine.

Now, on the SRP, it seems a common mathematical figure that the spine of the knife should be 1/4 the thickness as the height of the blade, in other words, a blade that is 20mm high should have a 5mm thick spine. When we told the maker that we thought the spine should be 5mm thick, he said no, a 3mm thick spine should be sufficient.

Now let me just say that this maker knows his stuff. He is an expert sharpener and he really knows his steel. But like most Taiwanese people, he only shaves, well, not very often -  and he has no beard. He also revealed that he likes the Mach 3 ( the poor guy…) So my mind started to smell like smoke, and I developed a slight twitch while trying to figure out why he said only 3mm would be just fine!

At this point it should be noted that this maker, Mr. Wu (not Maestro Wu – same last name, but two entirely different people) is big on Chinese Philosophy, kung-fu and Tai-Chi. For a “blue collar” guy, trying to decipher in Chinese what he is saying is like me reading Shakespeare to him in English. His language is very high level and quite philosophical.  However, I had some help yesterday, and between us (and a handy little PDA language converter) we manged to get immediate translations. It should also be mentioned that we went to him seeking his expertise and input – I trust his knowledge and experience, and in 9 years of knowing him, he has been a constant and a huge source of knowledge.

Basically (and loosely translated) his reason was this: “Technical skills are the result of experience, and someone that has technical skills and experience doesn’t need to rely on the math. My skills are more philosophically influenced.” In other words, I’ve been making knives for a very long time, if you want a Japanese style razor that works, listen to me.

Don’t forget, we specifically wanted his input on this matter, and we opted almost immediately to go with his recommendation of 3mm.

OK, so the title of the post is Taping right? Well, in all of this discussion of the thickness of the spine, the western razor has a “built in jig”, and the 5mm thick spine is supposed to create the ideal angle of the bevel and edge. Mr. Wu’s 3mm argument was also followed by an intense discussion about edge angles on razors. Bottom line, he said that they were too thin. This made me think about another experiment with micro bevels and how members of the Badger and Blade were posting magnified edges. It is also influenced by the fact that I did sharpen up a reed knife (which this Mr. Wu makes for me) that has a 4.5 mm spine as a razor. (I know it’s a lot to take in.)

So I revisited taping because, in my mind and limited experience, taping seemed to be used to prevent spine wear, and to make sharpening faster. These reasons made using tape unappealing to me in the past – but – now, since taping can be used not so much as a micro bevel, (as the thread describes), but to purposely make the edge stronger while acting as a built in jig. (Is it really different? To me the reasoning makes it so)

I set a bevel on a Wade and Butcher wedge, did a light bread knife (ala Harrelson Stanley) Then added 2 pieces of tape (I found that 1 piece really didn’t alter the geometry “enough” for what I was attempting to do) and then set the new bevel on the Shapton 4K Glass Stone and moved on to the 8K, 16K and finally the 30K. No stropping. I did the same on the converted reed knife.

The shave with both blades was great. WTG, ATG. The beautiful part was that I usually need to use a reduced angle when shaving ATG, but I found myself just shaving, with no real regard for the edge angle to get results or to stop from ripping those stubborn hairs out from under my chin…

Looks like the 3mm will do just fine. I can’t wait to see the results of our prototypes from Mr. Wu.

Adventures with my Maestro Wu pocket knife – Part 2

So I went for a walk with my daughter this morning, and on the way there is a baby store. Since the sun was beating down pretty hard on us, so we went inside to cool off a little before continuing.

The store was nicely air conditioned, and they had a little play area with a bunch of toys and even a small double swing. She hit the swing while I hit the massage chair (obviously put there for the dads!) that was in the small seating area for nursing and watching the kids in the play area. We were the only two people in the store, and my daughter was content on the swing – for about an hour. Meanwhile, my back was getting a little sore from so much massaging!

Then it happened – one of the store employees came to the seating area, where there is a little fridge and sink, and asked where the fruit knife was. My eyebrow went up. I didn’t pay too much attention as I figured they had a knife, even though it probably wasn’t worthy of being called so. As the bliss of the massage chair kicked back in, my eyes closed and I quickly forgot about the knife issue. Then my phone rang, and when I answered it, I looked over at the store lady and she was trying to cut a lemon with – wait for it – A SPOON! Really! A teaspoon!

I told the person on the phone I would call them right back – there was an emergency I needed to take care of.

Needless to say, the girl with the spoon was not making any progress, and who knows how long she was trying… I took out my Maestro Wu Mini Folding Knife and called her over to my chair and offered it to her. She looked at me, confused by what was in my hand, and then made the connection (something like OOooh -that looks like it will work faster than the spoon…)

As the lemon was large, and the blade of the knife small (a little over an inch), she ended up doing a cut around the circumference, and the lemon was cut in half. She rinsed and wiped down my blade, and gave it back to me with a smile, and took a sip of her fresh lemon water.

I put the knife back in my pocket, made sure my daughter was still on the swing, and settled back into the massage chair…….I never did call the person back….:)

Shapton Glass over Shapton Professional Stones For Straight Razors?

So I’ve recently changed my thinking that the Shapton Professional Stones are the best in any sharpening situation (excepting Lie-Nielsen A-2 Cold Hardened plane blades, for which the glass series is specifically designed). The Shapton Glass Stones, seem to be better suited for straight razors (with some exceptions, though…)

I had my theories for about this for 3 months of so, but only know has it been proven which might be better suited for straight razors. My thinking was this: The professional stones keep their shape longer, therefore the bevel on the straight razor would be “straighter”, while the softer glass stones would produce a slightly rounded or convexed bevel.

It looks like the glass stone theory was correct, but there’s more to it now. I think the consistency of the glass stones’ softness through the series is what allows each consecutive stone to conform to the slight roundness of the bevel in fewer strokes than it would take the professional series stones to either abrade the edge flat and/or conform to the bevel.

Think of it this way, with the Glass series, the stones conform to the edge (making sharpening faster), while the professional series makes the edge conform to the stone (making it take longer). That is why some people have reported the higher grit pro stones requiring more than the usual amount of strokes. This makes sense because little or no pressure is used on the razor when sharpening, so wearing down a pro stone will take some doing – especially at the higher grits.

So armed with this new information, which series is now better for straight razors?

Think before you answer……  : )